Dem skillpoints for Rangers and Bards
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I think Bards and Rangers should get 6 skillpoints per level instead of 4, I know this sounds like a suggestion and thus should be posted in the feature tracker but I'd like to make this post more to discuss whether it's possible or not, how it'd be made, whether anyone outside of the dm team is in a position to help or not and anyone's opinions on the suggestion itself.
Rangers and bards need a lot of skills to function (particularly ranger) but get so few, the rangers needs 4 skills just to track, another two to stealth. Not to mention skills for traps and frontlining.
Ranger is probably one of the classes that requires the most skills in order to capitalize on its strengths, the rogue may be renown for its use of skillpoints but a rogue can capitalize on what makes it unique without needing as many skillpoints as it gets whereas a ranger can not.
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I'm not at all sure if it's possible but I can agree with the ranger part.
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It is possible.
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Rangers who can tank AND stealth AND track are pretty sick. Not to mention they already got some bonuses if you go pure-class. If you gave them anymore they wouldn't be having any flaws. Did I mention their pets and divine wand use? At most I'd give them 5 + int mod. So only one more skill point (sp). pr. lvl, and I'd still be sceptical.
And bards.. They got like one flaw which is their mediocre hp and ab. Unlike ranger who's a bad caster the bard actually has his songs and decent spells.
Again if this class could earn more sps. they'd have so few flaws. They already got their songs, spells and good saves. I see one wants to have a bard who has like:
concentration, discipline, heal (for the song), bluff (always good for plots), spellcraft (extra saves and good for portals etc.), perform (a must for songs and rp). That was 6, with human you get 7 at 14 int and they could pick tumble for extra ac. This kind of bard I'd call a war-bard since they can pretty much be in the frontline. Now they got a lot of other good options but again if they start just getting two more they'd be crazy and have hardly any flaws concerning rp and pvp.
The other classes got their flaws too.You could make a sneaky bard like you could a ranger but you'd be missing on the discipline and concentration that are important if an enemy is close. But that's their flaw and if they didn't have it they'd rly crazy.
I wouldn't recommend changing it more to 1 sp extra and if you do that to ranger or/and bard you'd have to look at some of the other classes too. Skill points are underestimated imo.
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Against this idea for all the reasons Zav stated.
If you want to be a jack of all trades you sacrifice stat points into int to gain more skills even increasing it by one skill point means you need 2 stat points less in int,which is not a class essential stat for either class. -
IF
we were to do this, we'd probably do 3.5 rangers. Increase skill points, reduce hit dice, let them go archer / dual weapon, etc.
Reworking classes is not top of the list right now, however, there's a lot of other stuff that the scripters need to tackle.
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I'm pretty sure most people would agree that when someone says ranger what pops in their heads isn't as much a warrior that could go toe to toe with a fighter but rather someone who lives in the woods and knows all the tricks but is more than capable of holding his own.
I'd totally agree with the 3.5 changes, make em a bit less melee but a lot more utility, enough utility so that if they used it right they'd have a large advantage over a fighter but without it they'd be under par but not completely outdone.
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I am sensing a bard/ranger from Cheshire in the near future…. :)
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Nah I'm more of a rogue/monk person myself, every time I feel like playing a ranger I get too frustrated at the fact that I don't have enough skills to track "while" stealthed and just give up on the idea altogether.
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Yeah, I had a lot of trouble with skill points…tracking takes so many. I have pretty good int too. So maybe a little boost would be in order. Not enough for people to go all physical stats and still get everything but a little boost.
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I think people tend to think that they MUST have MAXIMUM in EVERY skill they want to use, otherwise it is pointless. Not really true.
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Not quite Zool, even if you had 18 int as a human you still wouldn't have enough skillpoints to make a satisfactory dex based melee ranger build, giving them 2 more points per level wouldn't allow people to have "MAXIMUM in EVERY skill they want to use" and that's assuming they gimped their build for int ontop of that.
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"Satisfactory"
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IF
we were to do this, we'd probably do 3.5 rangers. Increase skill points, reduce hit dice, let them go archer / dual weapon, etc.
Reworking classes is not top of the list right now, however, there's a lot of other stuff that the scripters need to tackle.
This.
A ranger with 6+mod skillpoints, 1d8 hp and the option to go either archer focus or dual wield focus at 2 would be amazing.
Note. This is already something that was prevalent on FR modules a ways back, maybe they have a solution that requires a minimal amount of incorporation?
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We'd make our own system because other ones likely wouldn't integrate well, or be easily maintainable, or might use methods we tend to avoid for various reasons.
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there was also the reason rangers had 2d8 hp first level as well. Of course that was before skill points and you rolled for abilities
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I agree with the ranger part. As a ranger you want: move silently, hide, discipline, animal empathy, listen, spot, search, tumble, heal and probably something else i am forgetting.. For these skills you need 18 int if my count is right. The only reason i haven't done a pure ranger personally is that a ranger feels incomplete without having the "one with nature" skills. My opinion. Bards would be too powerful with more skillpoints imo