An end to the soap opera
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Back in the day, when the player base was large, it was a good thing when certain characters were in open conflict with certain others. But now, when I can routinely log in and be one of only three or four people online, not such a good thing. With a player base this small, inter-player conflict just doesn't work. Continuing to encourage it just leads to people unable to do anything. Sure, certain religious differences are unavoidable; for example, my character wouldn't work with the Banite Sharlan for something relatively unimportant like helping Nanook with his wizard chess problem, but she'd still put aside her differences for the sake of saving the boy kidnapped by bandits. An innocent life at stake trumps theological differences. But this environment of rather silly, melodramatic enmity being encouraged is detrimental to the server when there's so few players still around. And frankly, it's old and uninteresting. I've been here, off and on, since 2001 and I'm really getting tired of lame excuses for conflict that are so obviously based purely on an OOC desire to create conflict and not on actual role-play. Not on in-character thinking. It's not entertaining.
We just don't have the player base to have a lot of inter-character conflict. Most people, I believe, (myself included) want to play a game to escape from conflict and tension in the real world. Not only that, but most people who want pvp conflict are going to choose to play for "team evil" because it's so much easier to generate conflict that way, so you wind up with a very one-sided situation.
DM plots and scripted quests provide enough conflict. We'd have to have a lot more players for this amount of inter-character conflict to be desirable or even viable.
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I always enjoyed an escape to conflict. Which is why I play evil characters. All the time.
I agree that there are often those who cause conflict because it is what has been laid out by the DM team as one precipitant of intrigue.
Also…
I've been here, off and on, since 2001…
The game was released in July 2002, and Arabel didn't start until late 2002 / early 2003.
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My inability to remember precisely what year it was that I started playing is rather beside the point, but not really surprising since I'm not sure what I had for breakfast yesterday, much less events of over a decade ago. I only know it was sometime after the events of 9/11 and before I moved from Brooklyn to Manhattan. Anyway, the point is that I've been here a long time and since the very beginning there have been certain players who are extremely quick to try and make playing here untenable for others simply because the stated desires of the DM team have been that there be inter-character conflict, using the lamest possible excuses for death vendettas that are so obviously based on OOC thinking that it breaks immersion and just saddens me.
I never said anything before because, in the old days, there were enough players online that those people could be avoided. That's no longer the case.
Since most of the people, like yourself, who enjoy pvp play evil characters, have you considered playing a LG Paladin (or something) and going after the ones you know also enjoy it? Or at least an evil character with goals in opposition to the others? Wouldn't that be better than trying to force the sort of rp you enjoy upon those who don't enjoy it?
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I'm not catching your drift. What point are you trying to make here?
That people should stop playing evil characters? -
I just wanted to play an evil character since I'd never done so before, its fun being obviously evil and preaching about why tyranny is a good thing. Also my next character will be a LG paladin, since I love preaching in general…
But its not like evil characters are all to blame, I try my hardest to work with good characters... though often because I want to corrupt them and convert them to worshiping Bane more than anything else. -
Personally, the LACK of conflict is what is discouraging me to play on the server anymore. Because one thing I will agree to, is that the conflict seems to exist purely on the surface only. As soon as you scratch it a bit, the conflict falls apart, and with it the intrigue, and the sense of real that the conflict created.
What started it, whether the current dm team, the surviving player base who havent moved on, or the small numbers vs the desire to not be able to quest with the few people left, I dont know.What I DO know, is that the ease of which current characters ACCEPT tieflings, thayans, evil faiths, evil subraces, or the whole idea that conflict is bad, and that conflict leads to a LACK of entertainment rather as a furnace for increased entertainment, ruins the gaming experience for me.
Since V4 broke away from the Canon Setting, created its own rules, its own version of the realms, the sense of realism in the Forgotten Realms has been on a rapid decline. DMs portrayed Cormyr as evil. It stuck. It introduced the Zhentarim as an acceptable entity within Arabel. And while the dms have stated that Good and Evil are Constants, what has become a constant on our beloved server is the the idea that Evil is acceptable, and whats worse, Fighting evil is only done when convenient.
You may state that I have the romantic pink cloud glasses on when I state that "Back in the days of V3", things were more fun. But the truth is, that the statement is true. The server was run with a History and a sense of progression. Plots were tied into each other, the story progressed. Meta Plots created this major story arch. And with it, conflict.
The vision of V5 was awesome, because it sought to reintroduce the mystery, the build in intrigue, and the Meta plot Story progression.I could yell elitism, or favoritism or whatever, but when the current "High Ballers" are creatures of convenience, the others who look up to them adapt this playing style. And with the falling player base, people are WAY too afraid to make decisions that put them at odds with others, because not only will they push away a certain amount of potential quest and plot mates, but they also push away the Conflict Convenient aspect of the player base, who enjoy what they have to the point of being afraid to lose it.
To summarize Green Monster. Conflict is what makes the server come alive. Your proposition will kill what is left. If you want proof, look at EFU. 4-5 times our player base.
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Every player has different play styles. Every character has different beliefs and morals. People play them as they play them. Saying you shouldn't have character-character conflict because the server base is low is like trying to neuter the creativity of every person who does still play.
You play a way, expect to have to face the consequences. You choose to support that person, fight this person, try to kill those people - you deal with it. When a DM says "Enough" and gives reason why it is "Enough" then it is enough.
Until then, I'm sorry but people play this to have fun, and trying to TKO people creating fun rp and conflict between people is pointless. As of yet, you're the only person creating conflict for OOC sake that I see, by the way. Everyone else is keeping everything perfectly IC.
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I apologize if this seems rather blunt; bear in mind that this is not meant to be read as an insult to anyone.
IC actions spawn IC consequences, both for your character and that of others. CoA, and RPing as a whole, becomes much more enjoyable when you are able to separate IC from OOC and refrain from letting the two mingle. Someone who dislikes your character ICly does not necessarily dislike you as a person OOCly.
That said, it is very difficult to play on CoA without any semblance of conflict whatsoever. If your character takes a side in anything, they are exposing themselves to conflict. You cannot defend or provoke a character, a faction, a plot, or even the outrageous prices in the Pride of Arabel without expecting someone to disagree with you, at times violently.
Thus, it is unfair on many levels to, intentionally or not, invite conflict through your character's IC actions, then demand that other characters stop acting ICly due to your OOC discomfort at having to contend with this. Provided that these characters are not breaking the server's rules, they are not obligated to do so.
I am not saying that there is no room in CoA for people who do not wish to take part in conflict, merely that maintaining such a stance is rather difficult given the nature of the server.
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CoA isn't doing poorly due to excess conflict.
It's the lack of it.
EFU is doing MUCH better in terms of playerbase and server health because it promotes conflict at every opportunity and handles it maturely. CoA can take a ticket from them and attract some of their players.
You know, become mature adults and suck it up when you die. Go on and be awesome, fuck the police and do what you think is fun within the rules of gameplay.
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Plenty of good and neutral aligned characters are happy to take part in conflict and even pvp. It is important to remember also that conflict often leads to cooperation. What is more unifying than a shared cause or enemy, for example?
Conflict is absolutely needed.
I would, however, like to see a bit more RP between enemies and conflicting groups, and less "I'm just going to avoid/ignore you." We owe RP to those we could conceivably FD.
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Here is the thing with focusing on DM plots with no Player conflict. There are only two (very overworked I might add) DM's that I have seen on since I have come back in the last month. This means at any given time there is unlikely to be a DM on to run a plot in ever timezone/play time. Player conflict creates something DM conflict can never do… give you meaningful combat, conflict, RP etc even when a DM is not on. My most memorable encounters on this sever (good or evil) are the rivalries I formed with real players. I learned to respect and become friends with these players more and more due to the rivalry. The honest to goodness fastest way to get a character goal completed is to have someone trying to destroy it. I know that sounds dumb but if you have an conflicted goal, it is harder to get people and DM's on board, however, if you know everyone and their mother is trying to destroy your goal or you have factions fighting to help you while other factions fight to destroy you, you then create an event in which half the server or more is involved in your plot and wanting to see it resolved. Conflict creates creativity and the best way to gauge whether you have an interesting story or not is whether you have someone trying to stop you.
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I am so new here I do not know just how to respond to this. But I'll try anyway.
I have spent most of my time on an action based pw, and had a ton of fun. I missed the RP aspect
of the game though, and so looked elsewhere. I stumbled upon CoA accidentaly one night during the inevitable server crash, and decided to check it out. I had no idea what to expect here.
I am on my 4th PC, and Finally having fun. The PC conflict in game is causing My PC to make decisions
about who, and what, he is doing. He may wind up going fruitloopy, his internal conflicts are huge.
And the external conflicts have yet to be resolved. Hard thing is I like to be liked, and have a dificult time
when my own gregarious nature is not responded to in kind. Its then that I have to remind my self.
"Oh yeah, it is a game, and specifically its RP, and MAYBE that guy, or girl, is just not the freindly type." Not personal, just his characters response to mine.
I see nothing wrong with player conflict. My biggest issue is deciding where my character stands regaurding some of the conflicts, and that is the fun for me In PC conflict.Of course, I could be wrong :-)
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There is a difference between characters not liking each other, and one character instantly escalating a minor disagreement into a threat of arrest. A character who likely has the influence to do so, thus completely ham-stringing a new character. An escalation that is so instant and extreme and so goes against the otherwise reasonable behaviour of that character as to seem ludicrous. It's especially unfair when it seems that all the players who like the challenge of overwhelming odds against their characters are all playing on the same "side". Wouldn't it be more reasonable for some of these players to seek conflict with the others who like it, rather than spoiling the fun for someone who only wanted to say "hi" to old friends and kill a few monsters?
I thought the server was dynamic enough to support both the sort of casual involvement I have time for and am interested in, and the more involved drama this other person seems to crave. Was I wrong?
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@Green:
There is a difference between characters not liking each other, and one character instantly escalating a minor disagreement into a threat of arrest. A character who likely has the influence to do so, thus completely ham-stringing a new character. An escalation that is so instant and extreme and so goes against the otherwise reasonable behaviour of that character as to seem ludicrous. It's especially unfair when it seems that all the players who like the challenge of overwhelming odds against their characters are all playing on the same "side". Wouldn't it be more reasonable for some of these players to seek conflict with the others who like it, rather than spoiling the fun for someone who only wanted to say "hi" to old friends and kill a few monsters?
I thought the server was dynamic enough to support both the sort of casual involvement I have time for and am interested in, and the more involved drama this other person seems to crave. Was I wrong?
Could you maybe give a recent example of this? I haven't seen any of this and if its happening I haven't seen it happen to the point of becoming a problem or effecting a great deal of players.
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The specific incident, without names, is that my character was told IC that the character Shevarra is an evil, horrible, Lyssan. Fine. Except that the character who reported this has demonstrated a complete lack of morals in front of my character. Meanwhile, Shevarra, (whom I do know OOC to be a Lyssan, or at least an ex-Lyssan) has denied it and demonstrated far, far better moral values that the accuser. So my character is not IC inclined to believe the accuser.
All fine so far. My character hasn't acted to save Shevarra from criminal pursuit, nor acted to assist in her capture. She remains undecided. However, this refusal to believe the accuser's accusations apparently was sufficient excuse for the accuser accuse my character of being a Lyssan as well and to threaten my character with arrest; something the accuser possibly has the influence to actually do. This without first checking with me whether I want or even have time for this sort of thing.
The accuser's general actions IC have always otherwise been rational, which made the whole thing seem like yet another case of "Ooooh… any excuse for conflict, cause all conflict is good even if it's silly" that has plagued this server for a long time. Even more OOC than that, the accuser discussed plans for my character's arrest openly in front of a known friend of my character.
I have neither the time nor the interest to pursue a plot in which my character struggles to clear her name. A plot that has been acted out over and over and over and over again on this server. The player of the accusing character should have checked with me first before escalating a minor difference of opinion into a threat of arrest. I was expecting some minor dislike and friction, and he instantly tried to escalate it into roping me into the tired old plot of "innocent person arrested, struggles to clear name" that this server has seen far too many times. I didn't appreciate it.
Moreover, if you look at those characters who have here reported that they like this sort of thing, you'll note that most of their characters seem to all be working together to try to force this sort of rp onto others rather than seeking conflict with each other. This seems to me to be rather detrimental to the server. It's a bit like if I took my iPod to an old folks home to blast heavy metal, when there was a biker bar down the street I could have gone to.
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Again, I ask: I thought the server was dynamic enough to support both the sort of casual involvement I have time for and am interested in, and the more involved drama this other person seems to crave. Was I wrong?
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All I have to say is IC consequences for IC actions. This goes along with the other recent thread about monsters. If you want a casual experience with no conflict then don't interact with anyone who has chooses a side. I understand somewhat of where you are comming from, however, OOC knowing that the character in question is "monstrous" or otherwise labeled as some kind of great evil, it is unfair to become OOC upset that your friendly interactions with her generate conflict. I can also say with certainty, the issue in question is not a random escalation, it has been slowly escalating behind the scenes since the Lyssian character in question started showing up again. If you want to OOC avoid conflict then don't allow your IC actions to create it and avoid known monstrous characters like the plague. Nuff Said
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The escalation is one from "You don't believe what I say about Shevarra" to "You must be a Lyssan too, I'll have you arrested" and happened instantaneously. This from a character who likely has the influence to do it.
I don't think it's right that anyone else should have the power to arbitrarily dictate to me what kind of experience I have here. If the characters who want deep melodrama like it so much, they should seek it with each other instead of teaming up to force it upon those of us have neither the time, the emotional energy, nor the interest in it. If I'm wrong, if this server is geared solely towards those players who want high drama, and those of us who simply want to say "hi" to old friends and smack a few goblins around are not welcome, then it was a mistake for me to return here and it'd be better for everyone if I humbly apologized and left.
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Errm sorry, but you've attempted the same thing with Sharlaan when you tried to have him arrested for using Turn Undead as an ability, citing him a necromancer. I don't think its fair for you to say that others shouldn't dictate your experience, since the whole point of the server is that we see how our characters would react to certain events and other characters. Your problem seems to be only with the one unnamed person.
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There is no need to leave. There is no need to interact with players who's play style does not fit with yours. I am sure there is room for a few folks to log on, smash some goblins, whilst gaining some release from real world issues. There are others who enjoy this, for sure, for you hear such comments frequently enough to be able to track in on those who enjoy such a relaxed style of play.
There are also plenty of folks who, if you interact with their characters will interact back and this is likely to result in IC conflict. Many folks thrive on that conflict. If you choose a god(ess) or race that will cause conflict, or work with those who oppose the conflict seekers, they'll seek you out, because this server is fundamentally about players interacting with other players through the medium of their characters. It would surely be a surprise if this did not result in some conflict. Some players choose conflicting characters and will seek this out, because that is how they seek release from real world issues.
People are people. By now, you should be aware of those who seek and enjoy conflict. Interacting with them will develop such. Either you step in and enjoy the resultant encounters, or you seek other partners who enjoy the hack and slash of some goblin chasing.
The server is not geared solely towards such "High Drama" of conflict, but it is encouraged by many players and much of the DM team. There are still opportunities to find a few friends and pursue some fun. However, if you enjoy DM attention and the tales that stem from it, then you need to make it fun for the DMs, or they will seek their fun in other places with other players. They are not paid, they come here for their own release from worldly issues. Other players also come here for their idea of fun. Look for those who's idea of fun matches yours and enjoy their company.
If you interact with those who you know will thrive on interaction and conflict, expect to be in conflict!