Retainer status, discussion.
-
I am asking because i believe i may need a bit of help in what status is likely to come with such and how NPCs especially would view certain things. This is not a rant, i seek to better my RP by understand what comes with the position i applied for and some earned in game. This goes for any house basically.
What does it mean to be the retainer of a lord? In the "days of old", when you messed with the retainers of house DeSchurr for example, you got punched or beaten to the ground, insulted and warned and that was that. People laughed at the man who was dumb enough to call out the servants of a lord and got what he had coming to him. I am sure i remember npc guards even giving them an occasional beating when someone grossly went out of line in front of them.
This is just an example because i have been dealing with stuff similar to the situation above IC-ly and since i was kind of stuck in how retainership of old worked, i may have reacted strangely because i made some wrong assumptions. I want stuff like this discussed and clarified so i have ooc knowledge of what my position means so i can portray this as well as i can IC-ly.
I know such things should not affect the reactions of PCs, who have their own views and motivations. Do not mistake this as ANY kind of attack upon how anyone has played their character since i have no beef with that -at all-.
This is not a complaint, just that i seek to know better, so it can help myself, and perhaps others too, what it means to be a retainer of a lord of the city. I'm starting this because i always thought retainers were elite agents of a lord were considered only a step below them when it came to respect (even if it was fear) etc.
What does it mean to be a retainer aside from free loot? Discuss :)
-
I think whether a Retainer chooses to kick-ass right then and there, or make a legal accusation against the slanderer and pursue a fine or apology is an IC choice. Either seems appropriate to me.
-
What you do, and is done to you, is done by, or to the Lord.
If they attack you, they are more or less attacking the Lord.
If you attack them, the Lord is attacking them.
Your every word is viewed as if spoken by the Lord himself.
Of course, its hard to explain in detail, but if you give examples it might make it clearer.
-
I always viewed them as servant of a noble.
So a noble lord employs these people to go out and do the things that he wants doing,but ive never consider them anything but commoners with some noble backing if they break the law maybe im wrong in this but that is my take on retainers. -
I've never seen them as more than representatives of their respected houses. The very word "retainer", in essence, means a servant or an employee. If they were immediately viewed as and given all of the privileges and respect of the very Lord they worked for, then things would dive into chaos. Let's use a present example, Donkeypuffy's Freya. She is the Steward of her House, which makes her more than just a Retainer. Just like the ranks in any organization. If simply becoming a Retainer made you almost parallel with a high-born Lord, it would make practically no sense.
It also depends on the laws. Going along with the DeSchurr example used above, it may very well have been okay for a Retainer to beat someone who spoke out against their lord. I mean, that makes them nothing but mad thugs, but if it's okay in the eyes of the law, then that's that. The current law system IG is nothing like that though. Retainers can still do things like this, but in their own houses, otherwise they're still subject to the law like everyone else. Albeit maybe with a bit more official backing, if say the Lord they represented decided to personally jump into the matter and defend their Retainer.
Otherwise they're just glorified adventurers with authority in the confines of their own establishment.
-
I had always thought it was as Hinty said. I am just trying to get a clear picture what being a retainer truly means, it seems it was needed since not all have the same opinion. :)
-
These are not just mere servants.
They are trusted and valued so much by their lords that they are permitted to wear the lords colours. There are almost certainly family members who do not get that right.
-
They aren't "mere" servants, no, as in some sort of slaves. But I don't think they should practically become the Lord they represent just by becoming a Retainer. A Steward on the other hand, would seem more like this, because by definition they're sort of the "managers" of their households/establishments; more than a representative. They're the respected eyes and ears of their houses. But to me it seems a bit ludicrous to think they're also the mouths and fists of their lords (in the eyes of the law, since I'm playing a Wyrmguard character), though. So we would pretty much (including the actual Lords themselves) have four Isodore Maleens, two Malcolm Hardcastles, four Lord Marliirs, and two Lord Wyvernspurs walking around? Just feels off.
Of course, mere discussion about it is a pretty moot point in itself. I'd much rather just get an "official" statement on this from the DM team. In legal terms, though, Retainers have most certainly not been treated as if they were all lords. If this has been a mistake, we have a lot of rectification to do, as a player base.
-
No no, they are not lords. But they represent Lords.
The laws apply to them the same as anyone else. Of course, if you were to go around arresting Retainers without damn good reason it might be political suicide for your hopes of ever getting promoted.
-
Seems if you want a real answer about what retainers are, you should use Ask a DM. However, they are merely servants of a Lord. Each Lord will view these people's status, actions, and behaviors through the lens of their own personality. Sure, Lord DeSchurr had his retainers act like bullies and beat people down, Lord Thond treated his retainers like members of his own family and asked that they always treat others as a gentleman should, Lord Bhaliir asked his retainers to act like civilized monsters because that is exactly what he was, and Lord Fezznick asked his retainers to be paragons of virtue, humility, and respect.
If you want a discussion on what players think or expect from retainers, then this thread is useful.
-
Retainers are extensions of the noble house they represent. And that is the key term. They Represent. As retainers, they act as the eyes, ears, mouth and hands of their household, and shape public perception about that which they represent.
An attack on a retainer -is- an attack on the noble house of which livery he wears, and -should- result in a response.
For example. Imagine a man wearing the livery of Prince Richard is assaulted in a village. Prince Richard may take revenge for the offense by burning the village down.
In another example, a man wearing the livery of Prince John is robbed in a forest. Prince John immediately puts out a bounty for the arrest of the bandits to express his displeasure. The longer the bandits remain unpunished, the weaker Prince John is perceived.
That being said, what I think -ought- to happen is not necessarily what will happen in game. A popular and well known retainer will get more support and protection from the noble lord than a trouble-making retainer who has a bad reputation.
Retainers are the soldiers, scouts, spies, negotiators, explorers, advisers, heralds. They do anything and everything so that they're noble lord does not have to do it himself.
Imagine a knight who is elevated to a barony, and decides he does not want to personally oversee his estate. He appoints a steward to maintain the estate. He hires guards for his caravans. He sends a herald to represent him to the local sheriff. He tasks a man to keep watch on a nearby earl whom he does not trust. He sends out foresters to hunt deer and keep out poachers. He knights two of his friends and makes them captains of his small garrison. These are all examples of retainers.
Later on, quite satisfied with the work of some of his followers, he grants them positions within his household which gives them income and responsibility. Others he discharges when he no longer has need of them. Still more he places on permanent retainer as his "men" to call upon if he ever needs them, for which they earn a small fee.
Attacking any of his men would be seen very unkindly by this lord. He may complain to the sheriffs, ride out himself with his knights and household guards and do violence, put up bounties, or sulk. It all depends.
-
From what I have experienced it all depend much on what house you are representative, on how people and NPCs react. However, just cause you are a retainer does not mean that say the Wyrmguards will automatically take your words as "right". When I started off as a retainer the Wyrmguards did not really care at all that Freya was a retainer, rather used it as a point that she should -not- get in trouble. Over time this has changed, especially since Freya began to become a more public figure and known around town but that was cause I made sure of that IG. Respect and importance as a representative of the house amongst other factions is really something that you earn like any other character, but I would argue that it is easier for a retainer has they have a whole noble house's backing. Still this can also backfire quite badly, while there will be moments when this public image come of great use, there are also moments it backfires and can put you very very far back compared to other less known people. This has become more noticeable for me when Freya became a Steward of House Wyvernspur, but that is part of the fun and I certain would not consider all the hard work something ever to be possible if she had -not- been a retainer of House Wyvernspur from the start. Retainer status is really just a "stand out in the crowd" like any faction member, people will recognize you and your title easier but not much else unless you work on it. Do good things in the view of the public and your retainer and the house benefit, others will see you more and get involved. Do things that will make the public sour and frown, you may have your house benefit but your retainer certainly wont! Still, this usually end up with involvement and more people notice you in a less favourable view ;)
So, a brief summary of my view is the following! A retainer start of as just "another" person of the House, people may spot them quicker than anyone else and they will stand out in crowds. However, the law and factions wont care much about anything else unless your character has earned a name. Do things that impress and involve, and your character will be more noticed and favoured by -some- NPCs and less so by others. An app wont instantly earn your character a special status, no matter how awesome of an app you make things like fame and special treatment have to be earned IG unless if the situation is "special". (Even minor Lords and Ladies wont be instantly recognized by all NPCs!)
-
Why would I want to show you any respect in a fantasy world with a fake character? That would take seperating myself from the game, and all my asskissing needs to be saved to help feed the meglomania of certain dms. You should know better CB.
walks off, leaving a trail of dripping sarcasm from here back to the LaF cave
-
@Leaders:
Why would I want to show you any respect in a fantasy world with a fake character? That would take seperating myself from the game, and all my asskissing needs to be saved to help feed the meglomania of certain dms. You should know better CB.
walks off, leaving a trail of dripping sarcasm from here back to the LaF cave
Sarcasm understood, however, keep in mind that IC factors come into play far far more than someone being a peon of some Noble who for the most part (some exceptions apply) is some Suzail suck-up. Keep in mind that to many people, the Nobility may well be considered part of what caused the near-destroyed state of the city. And most of the current "Houses" are brand-fresh new as far as Arabel is concerned. They aint Thond or DeSchurr. Or even Bhaliir.
And even in the height of pre-Rebellion Cormyrean happiness, some Nobles, let alone mere retainers, did not have "respect" except under threat of arrest.